Yamanaka

https://narutoverse2.rpg-board.net/t26-yamanaka-konoha

I want to cry looking at these changes. That's 5 for 6 Jutsu nerfed

Yes, I'm ranting. If you don't want to read it, then go back to the main page.


No... I'm not going to deal with it. Because this is the second time I've been slapped with a huge nerf, because of things I can do with my bloodline or clan, and it pisses me off. I mean... seriously... Everything that made the Yamanaka even enjoyable was just reduced to dirt. Why even play one anymore? The Kaguya lost their ability to be fun, just because I couldn't find hidden things to add bonuses to... And no, I'm not whining because I'm a powergamer, I'm complaining because everything I play gets changed, while everyone else remains nearly untouched.

"Oh noes, I lost my ability to teleport." So what? Hateshinai can still enter a room and start combat with a sealed B rank for 3 CP. -_-

Hell, if anything, clans weren't removed abilities, they were made better... Some people even have the ability to use four main areas of combat using two stats. How is this fair, by any reasoning? Sorry for the way I've brought this about, but if things just keep changing, because people find them "unfair" .... then I'm going to stop playing. Because half the shit they have is "unfair", yet I don't complain when I get beat to a pulp because of it. (Most of the time) I deal with it after a few moments, and continue playing. But if everything I play is going to be targetted, just because I know how to play them... then I'm not even going to waste my time here anymore. Because everything I play is just going to get reduced to nothing, leaving me with shit, while everyone else continues to get stronger.

By changing the Shintenshin and Shinranshen, you completely made a clan's ability... pointless and not worth using. Almost no one is strictly taijutsu, except the Hyuuga... which just use their byakugan to bypass it. How is that fair.. at all? You can possess someone and then.. you're completely defenseless, because they're a ninjutsuist, but you know NO ninjutsu, because you're a genjutsuist by -nature-. So basically, you controlled someone to get them hit... and to leave your body open to get hit. OR I can spend 5 more CP to increase the round by one, and make it so I can still block for myself. Woo. Again... someone tell me how this is fair compared to a clan that can spend additional chakra to give themselves DR... clans that get a weapon at a reduced cost, with no weapon negatives, a clan that can choke-hold several people at once with their shadows, etc? I'm done sitting here while my clans and abilities get nerfed... while no one else is suffering the nerf hammer. Change me, fine. But don't limit your "balancing" to just the clans I play.

If you both are that passionate about your clan, then take the time to suggest us better solutions to the clan. Rather than lowering your reputation with angry Rants.

If you cannot present better ideas than our staff members that keeps the Clan fun for you along with keeping it fair and in canon. then I point to my previous reply.

Deal with the changes.

Kay. So.

Want to see our reasoning behind this? Previously, a Yamanaka could control someone and despite not knowing the jutsu of the person they were controlling, they were able to use it. Now, tell me. How does a Yamanaka know how to manipulate chakra of a technique they don't even know how to use themselves?

I'd understand if we nerfed them to a point that rendered them useless, but they're far from that. You can FORCE someone to defend for you, you can FORCE a Kenjutsuist to attack an enemy. Let's say you know an S-rank genjutsu, and so does your enemy. You can FORCE your enemy waste their chakra and use it on their enemy, and stun all the other targets. Yamanaka are still dangerously strong. Let's say you know an S-rank thunder jutsu and so does your enemy. You can force someone to waste 25 chakra and do a crap load of damage to your enemy. And what did you do? Waste 8-10 cp? D'aww. Not to mention you can do this for a maximum of 5 turns? Yeah, totally weak. *Sarcastic*

This was not a "NERF". The Yamanaka jutsu have not been revised since NC, that was like four years ago. We've a VERY different power level from the previous NV, and NC. They needed to fit our server, and our power level.

As for you, Aqua. You were not nerfed. The wording of your power was rearranged so that it'd fit the rules and not break them. And if anything, you received a buff.

As for Alessia, can you imagine controlling a kenjutsuist and forcing them to attack an ally? That's 2d8 + 1d10 + STR damage + weapon effects. Now, let's say you used the Mind Body Control (the B-rank) that means you aren't unconcious, and after forcing someone to do that damage, you also get a turn to beat the crap out of that same target.

If you're saying the Yamanaka are useless. It means that you're getting too overworked about this revision and aren't looking at the situations and numbers you can all do.

Not to mention. Congratulations, you're all anime accurate now.

[Co-Admin] Ino wrote:

As for Alessia, can you imagine controlling a kenjutsuist and forcing them to attack an ally? That's 2d8 + 1d10 + STR damage + weapon effects. Now, let's say you used the Mind Body Control (the B-rank) that means you aren't unconcious, and after forcing someone to do that damage, you also get a turn to beat the crap out of that same target.

I've only seen two Kenjutsuists the entire time i've been on the server and I expect that Setsuna would just (free action) counter my attack and do that amount of damage to me if I even attempted it.

I've been here just over a week and i've already received a major nerf to my clan along with the ultimatum that if I want my class to not receive the full Mjolnir-like fury of the nerf bat I have to make better suggestions..

Rin, Setsuna, Hiyodori (taijutsu), Masaru, Juzo, Anika, Arietta (Hybrid), Hyou (Hybrid), That's just a list of close quater combat people I came up with in five seconds. I'm sure there are more.

Also. Another funny story. Yamanaka's can use CHA, which means if they take medical as their first affinity, they can control a medical-shinobi. And force the medical shinobi to heal the Yamanaka, and then use their turn to heal themselves as well. So if you're going to rant about how "Weak" you all are. Please take a breather and think about all the possible situations you all can handle. I can go on and on about powerful combos that clan can do. But you all decided to raise up your pitch forks and not take a moment to think for yourselves.

[Co-Admin] Ino wrote:

Please take a breather and think about all the possible situations you all can handle. I can go on and on about powerful combos that clan can do. But you all decided to raise up your pitch forks and not take a moment to think for yourselves.

That's exactly my point. None of us were 'powergaming' these abilities to their maximum effect and now we have to go full-munchkin mode and work out overpowered combinations, and in the process give another reason to raise the nerfbat.

This does not work for me, i'm sorry.

Co Admin Ino wrote:

Want to see our reasoning behind this? Previously, a Yamanaka could control someone and despite not knowing the jutsu of the person they were controlling, they were able to use it. Now, tell me. How does a Yamanaka know how to manipulate chakra of a technique they don't even know how to use themselves?

I'd understand if we nerfed them to a point that rendered them useless, but they're far from that. You can FORCE someone to defend for you, you can FORCE a Kenjutsuist to attack an enemy. Let's say you know an S-rank genjutsu, and so does your enemy. You can FORCE your enemy waste their chakra and use it on their enemy, and stun all the other targets. Yamanaka are still dangerously strong. Let's say you know an S-rank thunder jutsu and so does your enemy. You can force someone to waste 25 chakra and do a crap load of damage to your enemy. And what did you do? Waste 8-10 cp? D'aww. Not to mention you can do this for a maximum of 5 turns? Yeah, totally weak. *Sarcastic*

... A very simple reasoning to this. They are telepaths by nature, especially Alessia and Yokuei. Why they wouldn't be able to use their ability to read the thoughts of the jutsu they know, as well as how to do it, would be a waste of the telepathy trait... As well, think about it this way. I need to be able to learn that jutsu... meaning I need the wisdom mod high enough to learn it... as well, I need to know the very same jutsu they do, AND have the chance of controling that individual person to use it. As for genjutsu? .. Lol... Only people on the server I can think of that even use genjutsu effectively, are Yokuei, Alessia, and Shieo. Controlling Alessia would be like controlling myself... and I don't think Shieo even plays very often.

Co Admin Ino wrote:

This was not a "NERF". The Yamanaka jutsu have not been revised since NC, that was like four years ago. We've a VERY different power level from the previous NV, and NC. They needed to fit our server, and our power level.

Sorry, but that's a lie. The entire ability, bonuses, as well as jutsu were redone at the beginning of NV, only two years ago. Which yes... seems like quite the while, but then... guess what? So was every other clan and bloodline on this server.

I gave my rant, because I was upset, and needed to let out my steam before I just exploded, yelled things to the wrong person, and get myself banned... Figured it was the better idea of the two. *Shrugs* In any case, I would love to try and come up with new rulings... but then everyone would likely find them 'broken' and complain again. I understand that the jutsu seemed a little powerful (especially for a clan), but it's not like (at least Shintenshin) had its drawbacks... A chance of missing and making yourself vulnerable for a round? Even if we hit, we became vulnerable and unable to defend ourselves... so we'd use the person we controlled to defend our bodies. Which... now we can't even do that, considering half the server is a ninjutsuist/fuuinjutsuist.

If you weren't using the previous jutsu to it's fully capability, and not powergaming. That's fine. The fact that certain things could be done with the previous wording of the jutsu had to be changed. And if you haven't been using the jutsu that way, then these changes shouldn't effect you then. And this argument is irrelevant.

I'm not worried about how you use it or how Rin uses it. We have to think about making the jutsu fair. And now it is. All the DMs voted, and all the DMs agreed that it's still powerful, useful. I'm sorry that you have to think and put strategy on how it's used now. But for the potential damage, and strength that comes along with it, it sounds like a fair trade off.

I told you to take this into PMs with me, and we spoke about it. I gave you examples and we were taking care of it just fine. Now you brought this onto the public and like Ayame said, these rants are just embarrassing yourself because even all the players in party (when it was brought up) agreed. Some still think it's over powered. But it's going to be staying like this. I understand you're passionate about your character, and your clan. But the previous wording of the jutsu was unfair and it didn't even MAKE SENSE. Hell, I'm biased towards the Yamanaka because they're my second favorite clan. And even I had to agree with the team, and all the players.

EDIT: And no, it's not a lie. The innates may have been touched. But feel free to go back towards the old Naruto forums. The jutsu themselves have not been touched in years. Trust me, I would know. Because all my alts have been Yamanakas.

If anything, the changes were minor at best. Genjutsu and controlling people is still OP as it takes control of the character away from it's owner which is theft of intellectual property and godmodding. Id say you have it good there

I think you mean 'opposed rolls' and 'difficulty checks' are overpowered because they take control of the character away from the player.

Also, my Custom Yamanaka has only those 6 Jutsu for 200 tokens. I can't play her with tools that need the star's to align for them to work well.

It's not so much that I'm upset that my clan was changed... it's that my clan was changed (again) while no one else was even touched... immediately making them weak in COMPARISON.

Characters that can run around using B ranks for 3 CP? Less at higher levels? .. I don't see how that's even close to being fair.
Characters that can use ninjutsu/genjutsu/medical jutsu/fuuinjutsu all with.. two stats? It's a little unfair, considering the fact that they're also claiming to be immune to entire clans.

I can pick out MANY other overpowered combinations... and yet the clans or characters I play are the ones that get the biggest nerf.

Shintenshin no jutsu has been edited to make it slightly better to find a medium between the changes (that were good enough) and the current Yamanaka players.

xD this is so ridiculous...

How about the good ol' fashion, accept the changes the staff makes, or leave. There are many changes to alot of the clans/bloodlines since the server has started from the old one. I could complain about the Uchiha, espeically the genjutsu based uchiha and how underpowered they are until you get higher level, but I dont...I go on with the RP of the character, not focued on the power set. If you're here to play a power building server and game, go somewhere else.

Elyssa wrote:

I think you mean 'opposed rolls' and 'difficulty checks' are overpowered because they take control of the character away from the player.

Also, my Custom Yamanaka has only those 6 Jutsu for 200 tokens. I can't play her with tools that need the star's to align for them to work well.

Did you include any custom Jutsu in your submission? Else they probably just made sure your innates/actives were balanced to be worth 200.

I will say this.

Ranting is never a good or wise choice in a debate against changes. Nor are they personal attacks, so obviously that leaves that they wished to balance the clan to fit more cannon wise and decrease the overpowered effectiveness of the techniques. Even if you cant make a person attack with super uber jutsu that you do not know yourself. You can still gain a second defense action by forcing them to defend for you.

Honestly, if I had Katsutochi Yamanaka still... Fear would be spread throughout the server <_<; ...

Not all clans are meant to work in a direct approach I mean take Haku Hojo for example ... Hes strong which reflects his Clan. the Hojo Clans strength is mainly in their jutsu and their jutsu alone as their abilities are only really usable in fights against Doujutsu users. I utilize a tactic with my Clan techniques that have made me quite the strong opponent from what my Fight Track Record shows if I do say so myself...

What -other- options do we have? I only wanted Yamanaka for role playing. It was cool to dream that if a Kage failed their rolls I might get control and be able to see what their abilities were.

Now my character is boring. She's not a Princess. She has no role in her clan politics (posts to Clan were ignored). Her thought reading Jutsu isn't going to be approved and now her core abilities are being struck out. She can't control people to experiment with what they can do. She can potentially come out of an interrogation (as a Jounin!) with no answers for her superiors. Defeated in Ninjutsu by a prisoner with no access to Chakra!

Quote :

Did you include any custom Jutsu in your submission? Else they probably just made sure your innates/actives were balanced to be worth 200.

My submission was identical to another 200 token clan that had custom except weaker. If the staff would put token value's on suggestions and say 'you could have a bit more of x or y' to pad it out I would feel a whole lot more at ease here.

Elyssa wrote:

What -other- options do we have? I only wanted Yamanaka for role playing. It was cool to dream that if a Kage failed their rolls I might get control and be able to see what their abilities were.

Now my character is boring. She's not a Princess. She has no role in her clan politics (posts to Clan were ignored). Her thought reading Jutsu isn't going to be approved and now her core abilities are being struck out. She can't control people to experiment with what they can do. She can potentially come out of an interrogation (as a Jounin!) with no answers for her superiors. Defeated in Ninjutsu by a prisoner with no access to Chakra.

The Yamanaka can't really peek into people and see their abilities. Which is why we changed them. I can understand why you were mislead because you never watched the anime. But their current changes were to make them accurate as well as fair.

If the complaints are, I would be able to sit here and agree with you Elyssa if your arguement was, "I'm incapable of doing anything." but you're argument is, "I'm no longer overpowered and broken."

Elyssa wrote:

She can potentially come out of an interrogation (as a Jounin!) with no answers for her superiors. Defeated in Ninjutsu by a prisoner with no access to Chakra!

I wasn't gonna post till i saw that.

You expected to have an automatic, see into everyones deepest darkest secrets jutsu? what? Every jutsu ever, has the potential to be defended against for free. Expecting to not be resisted, no matter what rank, is silly.

That is all.

That's a lie. If you're stunned (like you will be when you're strapped to a wall in my interrogation room) you can be beat down with Ninjutsu, Kenjutsu and Taijutsu without getting a singe counter-roll.

I consider the comparison relevant to an S rank interrogation Jutsu. I suppose I could do any number of things to soften them up and make their counter roll pathetic.

Unless you're a kaguya, who can get through stuns, or anyone with a Dojutsu, who creates a jutsu to get out of that situation.

If you're interrogating someone, its likely they're a missing ninja...Missing ninja, will likely have some counter measure jutsu to get out of holds/stuns things like that. If not, then well...its their own fault.

I'm gonna stop here because the parties involved now seem to hate Yamanaka at a conceptual level.

Not at all, Yamanaka are amazing, however the 'upgarded' version allowing metagaming, you're right, not so good ^^;

Gaara wrote:

Not at all, Yamanaka are amazing, however the 'upgarded' version allowing metagaming, you're right, not so good ^^;

Converting ic information into ic knowledge by an in character process is not metagaming by any definition.

Trying to prevent ic information being gathered by ic means using ooc means -is- metagaming.